delay question RESOLVED

[Ferg]

Hello again...

Everything seems fine with session, however, when I plug my guitar in to record a track, there is a split second delay between playing the note(s) and hearing them...

Is there anything I need to do to stop this happening?

Thanks....

[Patrick K]

Hello again...

Everything seems fine with session, however, when I plug my guitar in to record a track, there is a split second delay between playing the note(s) and hearing them...

Is there anything I need to do to stop this happening?

Thanks....

Hi there,

I'm assuming you're using Session with Fast Track USB? If so, this hardware is designed to allow you to monitor your guitar pre-computer so you don't experience the inherent delays associated with monitoring your guitar playing via the returning software stream.

Give me a little more info about your setup and we'll go from there.

[Ferg]

Hi Patrick,

Thanks for the reply.

I am using session with the mico...(USB interface with input & output), so there's no hardware as such (unless a plastic box with a bit of cable on the end qualifies as hardware).

My set-up is fairly straight forward....I just plugged my guitar straight into the input (via a jack to mini jack converter). I figure that my problem lies in setting the latency in the ASIO settings, but I can't change the latency settings in the audio hardware dialog, as the wave device selector is default pre-set to *nowave* and I can't find a way to bypass this, or add the USB hardware to the dialog.

The help file says: "In most cases, Session configures your Audio Interface automatically, but certain circumstances warrant the use of this dialog."...and that's it.

PS...I can't install the Session 1.6.3 update for some reason, as it won't detect my current version (1.5), could this be part of my problem?

[Patrick K]

Hi Patrick,

Thanks for the reply.

I am using session with the mico...(USB interface with input & output), so there's no hardware as such (unless a plastic box with a bit of cable on the end qualifies as hardware).

My set-up is fairly straight forward....I just plugged my guitar straight into the input (via a jack to mini jack converter). I figure that my problem lies in setting the latency in the ASIO settings, but I can't change the latency settings in the audio hardware dialog, as the wave device selector is default pre-set to *nowave* and I can't find a way to bypass this, or add the USB hardware to the dialog.

The help file says: "In most cases, Session configures your Audio Interface automatically, but certain circumstances warrant the use of this dialog."...and that's it.

PS...I can't install the Session 1.6.3 update for some reason, as it won't detect my current version (1.5), could this be part of my problem?

Hi Ferg,

Thank you for the additional info.

The delay you're experiencing is formally known as "latency".

Latency is the time it takes your system to process incoming audio and output the resulting digital audio.

In this case, the incoming audio is from your guitar, and the resulting output is that guitar signal being sent back to you after being digitized by your system.

Right now, the amount of time it's taking your system to digitize the guitar signal and send it back to you is long enough for you to notice.

All systems, no matter how powerful, have some inherent amount of latency, but the trick is to make adjustments to your audio hardware and software settings to get this latency down so low that it's no longer perceptible to you. For every context and musician, the perceptible threshold for latency is different - - but a rule of thumb I'd go by is trying to get your system latency down to 20ms or less.

The micro has a control panel that allows you to lower your audio buffer size. The size of your audio hardware's audio buffer is the primary factor in determining your system's total latency - - the smaller the buffer, the lower the latency. The catch is that the lower the buffer, the harder your computer has to work to process everything on time.

From page 6 of the Session manual:

Latency Tab:
This slider allows you to adjust the driver latency.
The lower the number, the shorter the latency. However,
as this number decreases, the processing demands
placed on your computer increase. The default setting of
“256” should work well for many computers, however,
if you experience clicks and pops during recording or
playback, you will need to increase this setting.
Note: This setting cannot be modified while Session
(or another audio application) is running, unless the
M-Audio Micro Control Panel is opened from within the
Session software: Options > Audio Hardware > ASIO
Settings.

If you're currently set to a buffer size of 256, and you're still noticing latency - - or settings of 512 or higher causes clicks and pops in the audio stream - - well then it's time to take a look at your whole system: your computer's specific specs and hardware and how well your OS is optimized, etc.

For now, I'd recommend checking the control panel mentioned above, and see if there's a setting that solves things for you right away. If you're still having issues, I'd recommend recounting your full system info as suggest at the top of this forum. (http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?t=57) . . . that should be enough info for other users here, and possibly our tech support team, to help you dig deeper.

Just as an FYI, Session is also compatible with our Fast Track USB (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/SessionwithFastTrackUSB-main.html) audio interface. Fast Track USB has a feature that allows you to listen to your guitar playing before it's sent to your system - - so getting your system optimized for low-latency performance isn't as critical in the case of that interface. The drawback of listening to your guitar before it's sent to your computer, however, is that any guitar effects you're applying in Session won't be heard by you while you're recording: you'll hear the "dry" signal, even if Session is recording the signal with all the FX you've set up. If you want to hear your guitar with FX from your computer while playing/recording, the only solution is to make the adjustments needed to lower your system latency to an acceptable level, regardless of which interface you're using.

Ok, hopefully there is some info here that can help. Please let the forum know if you're still having issues.

THANK YOU for choosing Session Ferg!

[Ferg]

Thanks for the reply Patrick,

I figured out that my problem lies in setting the latency in the ASIO settings, but I still can't change the latency settings in the audio hardware dialog, as the wave device selector is default pre-set to *nowave* and I can't find a way to bypass this, or add the USB hardware to the dialog (in the ASIO fields).

The help file says: "In most cases, Session configures your Audio Interface automatically, but certain circumstances warrant the use of this dialog."...and that's it.

Why can't I access the ASIO?

I can't install the Session 1.6.3 update for some reason, as it won't detect my current version (1.5), could this be a part of my problem?

Thanks again...

[Patrick K]

Thanks for the reply Patrick,

I figured out that my problem lies in setting the latency in the ASIO settings, but I still can't change the latency settings in the audio hardware dialog, as the wave device selector is default pre-set to *nowave* and I can't find a way to bypass this, or add the USB hardware to the dialog (in the ASIO fields).

The help file says: "In most cases, Session configures your Audio Interface automatically, but certain circumstances warrant the use of this dialog."...and that's it.

Why can't I access the ASIO?

I can't install the Session 1.6.3 update for some reason, as it won't detect my current version (1.5), could this be a part of my problem?

Thanks again...

Hi Ferg,

I'd need session open in front of me to proceed from here, and all my Session-compatible hardware is at the office right now. If you're unable to select the M-Audio ASIO driver, and the 1.6.3 updater isn't recognizing your current install, then our Tech Support experts are probably the best equipped to find the fastest fix. I'll consult with Tech Support on Monday and make sure that this issue keeps moving one way or another.

Hang in there,

[JA]

In order to troubleshoot the ASIO problems you need to provide your system specs and OS information. Does the micro control panel recognize the device as "connected"?

We have had reports from some users of the error when trying to upgrade from 1.5. Send me a PM with your name and address and I can send you a copy of the 1.6 DVD.

[Ferg]

Hi Ferg,

I'd need session open in front of me to proceed from here, and all my Session-compatible hardware is at the office right now. If you're unable to select the M-Audio ASIO driver, and the 1.6.3 updater isn't recognizing your current install, then our Tech Support experts are probably the best equipped to find the fastest fix. I'll consult with Tech Support on Monday and make sure that this issue keeps moving one way or another.

Hang in there,

Thanks Patrick.

In order to troubleshoot the ASIO problems you need to provide your system specs and OS information. Does the micro control panel recognize the device as "connected"?

We have had reports from some users of the error when trying to upgrade from 1.5. Send me a PM with your name and address and I can send you a copy of the 1.6 DVD.

SYSTEM SPECS:
Make/Model: Toshiba Equium Laptop
Operating System: Vista 32 bit
Processor: Pentium dual core T2310 1.46 GHz
RAM: 2.00 gigs
Video Card: ATI Radeon X1200

The device is connected okay...everything works okay, except I unable to change the *nowave* default in the ASIO...go figure.

Thanks for the reply, I have PM'd you with my address.

[JA]

With the driver type set to ASIO, what choices do you have for the Audio Device? Does M-Audio USB ASIO even appear?

Check out this FAQ (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=041ea6d030a9089239a5ad8114b1b52b) to see if the Micro USB is using the Microsoft class driver or the M-Audio driver and update if necessary. It needs to be using the M-Audio driver in order for you to be able to select the M-Audio USB ASIO driver in Session.

[Ferg]

Thanks Ja...

I received the 1.6 update (by post) thanks alot...everything works fine, except the ASIO thing...

Thanks for the link as well...I'll read the FAQ and get back to you.

[Ferg]

Hi Ja,

I updated the driver as per instructions in FAQ, but it hasn't helped.

I can't change the settings...see attached.29

[JA]

And the M-Audio Micro USB control panel recognizes the device as "connected"? What driver version # is showing in the control panel? Does it show the same version in the Device Manager?

[Ferg]

I haven't got that far....so it isn't connected.

The Driver Provider is still Microsoft, which means Vista is using the class-compliant driver instead of the M-Audio driver...is this because I don't have fast track pro?

The only driver listed in the (windows) control panel is M-Audio micro.

The version of session that I purchased, just has a USB with a line in and line out (mini-jack)...

[JA]

You need to use the M-Audio driver. What happened when you tried manually updating the driver as described in the FAQ?

You don't need the Fast Track Pro; you just need to get the M-Audio driver loaded for the Micro.

[Ferg]

Thanks for the reply Ja...

In the driver tab (in the M-Audio micro properties box), the device is displayed. When I am asked to pick from a list of device drivers on my computer for updating, I get an icon for the USB audio device, but that's all (see attached) I highlight the icon, and select next, and I get a message saying that the device is successfully updated, and I should re-boot. I do this, but when I return to the device manager, it still displays microsoft as the default driver.

I suspect I need to re-install the driver, but the FAQ isn'y too clear, it says..."If your M-Audio device does not appear, click "Cancel", disconnect the device, and reinstall the driver..."

disconnect which device? And re-install how? The last thing I want is to mess things up further...

[JA]

Disconnect the Micro USB (the little blue hardware with the attached USB cable). Download and install the latest Micro USB driver (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=927). We have an installation guide (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=e1b8e3e88ae4134050bc0cdc7f861a20) to walk you through this process.

[Ferg]

Excellent!

At last, it's there dude.

Thanks for your patience Ja....:D