Windows 7 x64 and 5074

[bonestonne]

Many people have had their fits over whether or not the M-Audio driver works with Windows 7, or even in x64.

Because of my lack of x86 hardware at this point, this will only apply to x64 installs. Please read through this entirely before asking questions, If the answer can be found in here, I'm not going to reply to quote myself over and over.
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The current x64 driver for Windows 7 that's released is version 5074, which can be downloaded from the M-Audio website.

This is an executable file which extracts the drivers and installs the control panel for the M-Audio cards for you. As stated by M-Audio tech support, the reason for the separate control panel is to maximize quality from the card itself.

Does the driver work? Yes, it does. This is not a one case scenario however.

How did I install Windows 7 and get the driver working on my first try?

I recently purchased the Student License from www.win741.com. The promotion will end soon, and I figured it was worth $29.99, at least looking towards the future, as well as looking at the current state of Windows XP x64.

To install this software presented me several problems, however I will skip to the end of that story, and reduce the tangents as I digress.

I managed to cleanly install Windows 7 Home Premium x64 on a spare hard drive I had lying around. Immediately after installing Windows 7, I first installed the driver for my graphics card, an ECS nVidia 9600GT. Promptly after installing that driver, I installed the M-Audio 5074 driver which I downloaded from the M-Audio website. An important thing to note is that the cards were already installed in the system, I simply changed the hard drive I used. Taking out the two cards was more work than I wanted to bother with. Immediately after installing the M-Audio driver, I was able to open the control panel and use it. It took several tries to actually set the cards up (as I use my 24/96 for monitoring only, and the 1010 for inputs only, and the S/PDIF link had to be configured).

After later installing several other applications, such as Adobe Audition, Firefox, and Avast Antivirus, I went on to test whether or not there would be static in the recording above 48kHz, which as expected, was there. The only cause I could guess it is would be the C1E state, as well as Throttling changing frequencies during the recording, which caused static inside the computer, which appeared on the spectral waveform.

I'm currently working on a 7 track EP with some friends, so my time to test anything out with Windows 7 will revolve around free time from that.

These are my findings, as relevant, but new questions.

My Troubleshooting Checklist:
If the driver does not work, try searching for old components of the M-Audio driver if you did an Upgrade Install.

If you did not do an Upgrade Install of 7, but you did a clean install, try reinstalling.

If the card produces static, or any form of distortion during recording and playback, be patient, and check back often, I may update this frequently, only way to find out is checking.

Do not post here complaining that the driver doesn't work, or any similar phrase, this is a guide to hopefully help you, I don't want to know who's driver isn't working, just what the problems you have are. I can't recreate your problem, and posting a sample of the audio captured by anything in open air wont help you or me, so just be patient.

If you have any insightful information, feel free to add it, but do not spam up this thread, as it is intended to be a reference for you and other people.

[rschase]

I read with interest your post about having no problems with W7 x64, and given the fact that so many others (including myself) are definitely having problems, I'm curious how we could get such different results.

I am using an ASUS M3A motherboard, and I see no place in the BIOS setup to change "throtling" or C1E state. I feel rather clueless about how to deal with these issues because I definitely continue to experience static. The one utilitity that somebody suggested for this doesn't work with Windows 7 x64 bit. Any suggestions?

It may not be fruitful to spam up your helpful hints with complaints, but it's also not entirely helpful to those of us who are struggling to say, "Works fine for me." It only makes us feel all the more clueless.

[bonestonne]

Well, what I meant by saying "lose the spam" was people who simply start the hate train, by saying, "it doesn't work for me, m-audio sucks."

To be honest, finding the C1E states in BIOS can be a little tricky, as the new layouts have changed so much, but if there's a Cell Menu, or anything like that, look in there. I have an MSI P45 Neo, and that's where it is for me.

I think the biggest problem for the driver is that motherboards do not have a universal standard. My PCI clock might be at 33mHz right now, yours might be at 42.

Also, as far as I know, there's no way to stop Throttling in BIOS. I checked that in mine, and there's no definite Throttling option, lowering the clock state is really a C1E deal. The menu that contains C1E should simply be changed to Disable.

As for within Windows 7, Power Options are bare, with little definite settings. I have my computer set for High Performance mode, and regardless of the internals of my computer, it's set to active cooling. I still had a static problem, which means that the C1E state is still changing, and Throttling is still occurring.

I'll post back in a while and give the exact settings of my PCI bus, C1E state in BIOS, and any other setting I might be able to provide for you. If I have the time to take a picture type guide, I will, but I will most likely provide it in the form of a numbered picture gallery in a Zipped folder.

With so many people now building their DAWs, unless they go in and set all the speeds manually in BIOS, it's hard to know what the hardware is really running at. I wouldn't necessarily consider the BIOS settings final, as disabling the C1E state in BIOS seems to have no effect, but it's a place to start.

[bonestonne]

If you use Windows 7, do not change your settings yet!

It appears as though Windows 7 has a dependency with the ACPI setting in BIOS. I do not have the time to back up all my hardware and check to see if it's something that can be changed by a clean install with the setting Disabled beforehand.

Okay, while I have the time, and multiple computers to "guess and check" this time, here are the settings my BIOS has:

Advanced BIOS Features:
PCI Latency Timer: 32
Chipset Feature -> HPET -> Enabled
Trusted Computing -> TCG/TPM Support -> Disabled

Power Management Function
ACPI: Enabled <- Do not change this setting if you're using Windows 7, the system will not startup.
Restore Power after AC loss: Disabled

Integrated Peripherals:
LAN Option ROM: Disabled
HD Audio Controller: Disabled
Parallel Port: Disabled
COM Port 1: Disabled

Cell Menu:
Intel EIST: Disabled
Intel C-STATE Tech: Disabled
---
Advanced DRAM Configuration
Enhance Setting: Disabled
FSB/DRAM Ration: Auto

----
ClockGen Tuner
Adjust PCI Frequency: Auto (I don't know the auto rate, I can only assume 33MHz)
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(At the bottom)
Spread Spectrum: Enabled
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Those are all the settings that I found within my BIOS that would make a difference for audio apps. For a breakdown, here are what some of the settings mean:

HPET: High Precision Event Timer -> This allows your Northbridge Chipset (Pre-i7 Intel, older AMD) to auto adjust latency times between PCI and CPU/OS to maintain consistency.

ACPI: The most important setting This is what puts a CPU into the C1E state, sometimes called Halt. This is what causes Throttling. This is the Advanced Configuration Power Interface, it lowers clock frequencies at any time to reduce power usage.

Intel EIST: This is the setting that would initially start a downclock of your CPU when under low, or no load situations (idle).

Intel C-State: More advanced C-State settings for during Sleep. In short, they adjust different clocks of your hardware while idling to reduce power usage. Each C-State has a different level of downclocking or even powering down parts of a motherboard.
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Everyone having problems with strange sounds, or static in recordings above 48kHz should check these settings on their computer.

[bonestonne]

There is a way around this.

You can feel free to optimize your BIOS as you want, but the problem can be 100% tested and proven to be C1E state.

Disabling ACPI in my computer caused Windows 7 to fail to boot, nothing would bring the system back except for re-enabling ACPI.

With that being said, I had to simply find a way to force RMClock to run. RMClock itself is digitally unsigned by Microsoft, which is why it will not run or install.

Running the application as Administrator will usually at least allow it to install, however the RTCore64.sys itself is the problem file (for those running x64. If the same problem exists in x86, someone else will have to fix it).

Once you install RMClock however you make it happen (there are many different ways, running as Administrator will work, I simply put Windows 7 into Test Mode), you need to download a new copy of RTCore64.sys, and replace the existing one.

http://rapidshare.com/files/52518414/RTCore64.sys.html

that's the download link, it is still working, and I have the file on my computer as well if that link ever goes down.

I set RMClock on my computer to run through Task Scheduler with Full Admin rights, however once you get the new RTCore64.sys, you should simply be able to run the application as it is, and use it to Disable C1E state.

I do not have the exact same test done to show that static does not occur, however I have two screenshots of my test rig successfully recording via S/PDIF showing static before C1E disabled, and no static after C1E is disabled.

Beware these are native to my screen resolution (2560x1024).

http://www.kwikpiks.com/files/129/wa...ingENABLED.png

http://www.kwikpiks.com/files/129/wa...MClockhack.png

[MaxDB]

bonestonne,

I also have been playing around with Win7 x64 drivers and 2 - 1010LT cards.

Encouraging to see someone elses progress.

I have a dual boot and have been using 32 bit but experimenting with x64.

I also did a clean install and I can playback samples but having trouble with recording and static. C1E seems to be a major source of trouble.

Just a thought: I wonder if M-Audio could disable the C1E state in their driver? JA?

It seems like a good work around without having to hack in 3rd party utility.

Also the driver would only control C1E while it was loaded.

Anyway keep up the good work.

[bonestonne]

Not to shatter dreams, but it would be better to have C1E disabled through the audio app of choice, as the Delta Control Panel is the "replacement" for windows audio, although I have to say, in 7, it's not a replacement, it's an addition. 7 Routes audio so differently from XP, that I think the drivers could use more work. More onto point, the driver loads with the OS, and i wouldn't disable the driver ever (use my cards as my main outs).

I don't like how the new windows sound mixer works, but that's really a matter of opinion i guess.

I haven't had a chance to test 7 with C1E disabled in BIOS yet, as it broke my install, i'm wary about playing with my BIOS further than where it is. I never saw problems like this is XP, and considering I never touched Vista, it was completely unforeseen.

My Windows install is activated and whatnot, but it is not my final. I intend to get a larger (250gb or 320gb) drive because I normally dual boot, but for now, the 80gb gives me room to play. With the features.

The BIOS mods I have listed, if set correctly should work well once you do a fresh install, but set the BIOS first. it was a little discouraging to see 7 fail to boot properly after disabling ACPI, so I may get in touch with some of my programmer friends, they'll know more about it than me, I'm just a hardware geek, they know the software way better.

Aside from all of that, when it comes down to Windows 7 itself, I am feeling confident about it. I started to recently notice that sessions expanding into more than 1.4gb of RAM (yes, I do have 8 total) would start to freeze Audition, but now in 7, I'm using about the same amount (odd because 7 itself sits in nearly 1gb) and I'm not seeing the same slowdowns. It could have been the clean install of Audition, or 7's better management of available resources, but either way, I'm satisfied with the performance. I would be happier if Audition could use a quad core, but that's a whole different can of worms.

I also got VMWare working in 7, but only installed, I haven't had a chance to use it at all. I plan to see what's possible with other software, but don't want to risk the OS and my data at this point (i back up everything, but am still careful).

I would say it's worth running 7 in test mode, but I'm sure there will be a fix for unsigned software eventually, even if it's a third party fix. As "cool" as it sounds, I dont really trust it completely yet, it's a big of a large jump for me that I'm still getting used to.

[rschase]

bonestonne,

Finally, some specific answers from someody who cares. I really do appreciate your suggestions. When I disabled ACPI I also was unable to boot up properly. I had to re-enable it to get to my Windows screen. So I guess I'm stuck with trying to make RMClock run under Windows 7, which it refused to do the first time I tried. I'll download the RTCore64.sys file and see if that helps.

I'll keep you posted.

[bonestonne]

When you install RMClock, let it install normally to whatever software path it wants.

When it's done, you need to navigate to the RMClock folder:
C:/Program Files (x86)/RMClock
(i think that's the path, not actually in windows right now though)

Just replace the RTCore64.sys file. you don't need to do anything else.

The RTCore64.sys file has a dummy signature in it, so it can bypass the Digital Driver Signature requirement of Windows 7. The signature was also a requirement of early beta releases of Windows Vista, which is how the problem initially came to light (and why the fix just needed to be updated to work).

When I have the time to try a Windows 7 install with ACPI disabled, I will to see if it works.

Glad to know the ACPI issue is not just me though, thanks for making that clear.

[rschase]

Okay, so I finally got RMClock to run with the new RTCore64.sys file. It wouldn't run normally, I had to make sure that all the files in the directory were not read-only, and that I had "unblocked" the new file (which Windows blocks automatically).

I tried running it in Safe mode. No luck. I tried running it in Debug mode. No luck. But when I went back to normal Windows 7 (of course, after a re-boot) it would run as an administrator. Then came the real problem for a dummy like me. I couldn't figure out how to disable C1E.

The only thing relatively close to it was under "Advanced CPU settings." With the CPU setup tab lit up, I looked at the "ACPI state to view/modify" dropdown menu. The only choice on there that looked remotely right was one that said "C1 (Halt)". I selected that one and unchecked all of the "enable . . ." choices below it. I then checked "Apply these settings at startup" and "Apply"ed the changes.

Having done all this, I then loaded Audition 3.0 and attempted to record an MP3 I was playing in WinAmp. The playing sounds fine. But the recording....has the same old static.

I'm going to go into the BIOS and see if I can find some settings that look remotely like the ones you suggested. My ASUS M3A does not offer many options. I'll keep you posted.